xAP Talk Transcript 2006 07 25
25/07/2006 20:57:27 * James is connected
25/07/2006 20:59:59 * drodegeb is connected
25/07/2006 21:00:18 ‹James› hi
25/07/2006 21:00:24 ‹drodegeb› Hi
25/07/2006 21:01:09 ‹James› i';ve got a feeling it'll be a quiet night in here tonight
25/07/2006 21:01:33 ‹drodegeb› When do most start showing up?
25/07/2006 21:02:17 ‹James› usually about 10mins in
25/07/2006 21:02:27 ‹James› The jabber bot is getting there btw
25/07/2006 21:02:50 ‹drodegeb› That will be nice, I can't wait
25/07/2006 21:03:00 ‹James› it's now two apps, one that is a jabber connector/bot and the second app does all the questions and answers
25/07/2006 21:03:29 ‹James› and "are the kitchen lights on?" does currently work
25/07/2006 21:04:12 ‹James› also as it's now two apps you can post questions over http, xAP, jabber and probably sms too
25/07/2006 21:04:57 ‹drodegeb› Sounds good
25/07/2006 21:05:26 ‹drodegeb› When do you think it will be ready for testing?
25/07/2006 21:06:14 ‹James› probably this week, the trouble is it's now a 4+ way app. the bot, the answer server and then Floorplan and switchboard for info.
25/07/2006 21:07:05 ‹James› xAP does make app structures like this very simple ;-)
25/07/2006 21:07:42 ‹drodegeb› I have a couple xap applications I am planning to build, but no time to actually get to it.
25/07/2006 21:08:03 ‹James› what do they do?
25/07/2006 21:08:12 ‹James› sry, will they do?
25/07/2006 21:10:24 ‹drodegeb› One I am currently calling "House Controller". It will be configured with xap devices as sensors (ex. Motion Sencors), and eventually deal with Thermostats, Security Panels, etc..
25/07/2006 21:10:47 ‹drodegeb› The same can currently be done with scripting, but I want something that is configurable, and not have to make changes to scripts
25/07/2006 21:11:26 ‹drodegeb› And eventually has intelligence, ex. Using motion sensors for occupancy, but also use the exterior door sensors to know that there is still someone in the house.
25/07/2006 21:11:51 ‹James› sounds very useful
25/07/2006 21:12:03 ‹James› what do you develop in
25/07/2006 21:12:37 ‹drodegeb› Others are a basic sprinkler controller (simple scheduling, not as enhanced as mcsSprinklers), a Caddx app, and a notifications app that will be configured to watch for certain xap messages and send email, pages, etc..
25/07/2006 21:12:57 ‹James› that;s quite a list
25/07/2006 21:13:02 ‹drodegeb› I have started to play with VS2005 Standard since MS gave it way for a while.
25/07/2006 21:13:12 ‹James› :-)
25/07/2006 21:13:16 ‹drodegeb› The app that I am starting with is the House Controller one.
25/07/2006 21:13:21 * Gregg is connected
25/07/2006 21:13:38 ‹James› the simple one then ;-)
25/07/2006 21:13:55 ‹James› hi gregg
25/07/2006 21:14:04 ‹drodegeb› Well, then one I don't already have another solution for.
25/07/2006 21:14:05 ‹Gregg› Hi James
25/07/2006 21:14:09 ‹drodegeb› Hey Gregg.
25/07/2006 21:14:27 ‹Gregg› Hi
25/07/2006 21:14:56 * Ian B is connected
25/07/2006 21:15:09 ‹Ian B› evenin all
25/07/2006 21:15:10 ‹James› gregg, re that screensaverserv issue. it does seem to need an rss feed, doesn't have to be xNews though
25/07/2006 21:15:18 ‹drodegeb› Hello
25/07/2006 21:15:29 ‹James› it tjust detects and uses news if its there and the server is unconmfigured]
25/07/2006 21:15:32 ‹James› hi
25/07/2006 21:15:34 ‹Gregg› Ok--I had assumed that as xAP news seemed to fix it
25/07/2006 21:17:55 ‹James› i haven;t looked at the code thought to see why, it certainly shouldn't need it. in theory it should if blank default to mi4.biz news
25/07/2006 21:18:25 ‹Gregg› Well, your beta worked for me w/o it. So, perhaps something's changed
25/07/2006 21:19:09 ‹James› must of, could of been the code that picks different setups based on ip
25/07/2006 21:22:02 ‹James› hmm, just tried it here by blanking out the rss feed line on the default tab and going to screen.xsp and it didn't error.
25/07/2006 21:23:02 ‹Gregg› ... must be just me
25/07/2006 21:23:38 ‹James› na, it'll be me - i'm just not trying hard enough
25/07/2006 21:24:25 ‹Gregg› I also just happened to launch server this time through the start menu vice directly from explorer; though, don't see how that would matter
25/07/2006 21:25:50 ‹James› i can't see it would make a difference
25/07/2006 21:32:15 * drodegeb disconnected (timeout)
25/07/2006 21:34:17 ‹James› so what's Ian up to this week?
25/07/2006 21:49:28 ‹Ian B› sorry - installing Gizmo for my US work calls
25/07/2006 21:49:53 ‹Ian B› getting hot and bothered but have now installed a Wickes AC unit in the shed
25/07/2006 21:49:58 ‹James› ah, a new contender for Gregg's sip proxy then
25/07/2006 21:49:58 ‹Ian B› is that overkill?
25/07/2006 21:50:17 ‹James› a shed with AC, nice
25/07/2006 21:50:20 ‹Ian B› I think not given the weather forecast
25/07/2006 21:50:30 ‹Gregg› AFAIK, gizmo is a sip client
25/07/2006 21:50:33 ‹Ian B› :-D:-D
25/07/2006 21:50:41 ‹Ian B› It is apparently
25/07/2006 21:51:01 ‹James› so it'll work witha sip proxy then, in theory
25/07/2006 21:51:19 ‹Ian B› no idea but it sounds like it
25/07/2006 21:51:39 ‹Gregg› Yep--fwiw: I just tested the mjsip proxy w/ a sip client and was trapping call info
25/07/2006 21:51:46 ‹Ian B› I was using Skype but it doesn't seem to be able to send touch tones during a call these days
25/07/2006 21:52:25 ‹James› i don't know how the call rates compair, but www.voiptalk.org it pretty reliable
25/07/2006 21:53:09 ‹James› i have a hardware sip phone link straight to it and it seems to work very well
25/07/2006 21:53:09 ‹Gregg› or, maybe we could just trade time on each other's asterisk boxes ;)
25/07/2006 21:53:52 ‹Ian B› I dial the dreephone numbers for conference calls - the other party (work) pays then not me
25/07/2006 21:53:58 ‹James› this is turning in to an asterisk fan club
25/07/2006 21:59:34 ‹Ian B› Gotta go guys. Hopefully have more to say next week
25/07/2006 21:59:37 ‹Ian B› See ya
25/07/2006 21:59:40 ‹Ian B› byeeee
25/07/2006 22:00:15 ‹James› bye ian. enjoy the AC
25/07/2006 22:00:33 * Ian B disconnected (timeout)
25/07/2006 22:03:43 ‹James› it's just too hot :-(
25/07/2006 22:06:21 ‹Gregg› AC isn't quite universal--hunh? I would have trouble coding/working w/o it blasting on me
25/07/2006 22:07:01 ‹James› it's about 30 here, earlier my car said 41.5 when i got in to it
25/07/2006 22:07:33 ‹Gregg› (quickly trying to convert...) that's sounds quite bad
25/07/2006 22:08:06 ‹Gregg› Do you have temp sensors deployed in your residence?
25/07/2006 22:08:06 ‹James› quite toasty
25/07/2006 22:08:19 ‹James› that's on my todo list
25/07/2006 22:08:38 ‹James› i was going to get a tom10 with the one wire sensors
25/07/2006 22:09:11 ‹Gregg› I don't see his website anymore; I toasted mine (stupidity) and don't know where to get a new one
25/07/2006 22:09:32 ‹Gregg› I'm assuming that means I'll be going down the more conventional 1-wire approach
25/07/2006 22:09:41 ‹James› the odd one turns up on ukha for sale, thats about all
25/07/2006 22:11:07 ‹Gregg› What do you use as your primary "HA controller"? xFP?
25/07/2006 22:11:15 ‹James› yep
25/07/2006 22:11:22 ‹James› it replaces HS
25/07/2006 22:11:46 ‹Gregg› Is it possible/practical to run it as a service?
25/07/2006 22:11:58 ‹James› yep, biult in
25/07/2006 22:15:18 ‹James› you use misterhouse don't you?
25/07/2006 22:16:10 ‹Gregg› Yes--although I really ought to take a look at xFP to understand all the things it can do. It may either give me some new ideas or perhaps I may shift some of the mh logic that direction
25/07/2006 22:17:04 ‹Gregg› The functions that would be really hard for me to leave mh is the presence tracking and predictive lighting control.
25/07/2006 22:17:45 ‹James› presence tracking sounds nice but how does it do predictive lighting?
25/07/2006 22:17:57 ‹James› based on yesterdays logs?
25/07/2006 22:18:29 ‹Gregg› No, by defining a node-graph that maps to rooms and the connecting points
25/07/2006 22:19:10 ‹James› ah, so when you enter the hall it turns on all connecting rooms?
25/07/2006 22:19:13 ‹Gregg› And, adjacent rooms can then turn on lighting in anticipation of your appearing. If you don't then it will turn the light back off
25/07/2006 22:19:37 ‹James› k, makes sense
25/07/2006 22:19:45 ‹Gregg› No--only the ones that I care about. And further, it is "model" in my house where more of the predicting occurs at night w/ night lights
25/07/2006 22:19:48 ‹James› and the presence is pir and bluetooth?
25/07/2006 22:19:54 ‹Gregg› Keeps me from stubbing toes
25/07/2006 22:20:14 ‹James› that hurts
25/07/2006 22:20:48 ‹Gregg› PIR for now. But, the primary reason for my creating zmxap was to use it inside for difficult to monitor locations like rooms that are very open and wide and don't necessarily have traditional door-ways
25/07/2006 22:21:24 ‹Gregg› So, zmxap zones would serve as sensors. And, of course, door sensors are also used. Some, from my alarm
25/07/2006 22:21:47 ‹James› so all in all you've got a pretty wired house
25/07/2006 22:22:47 ‹Gregg› Well--never enough. But, SWMBO expects it to work all the time now rather than marvel that it ever works correctly. ;)
25/07/2006 22:23:22 ‹James› xFP currently lacks the concept of a room, does have groups though. I do need to add the room concept as well as catergorising the inputs and outputs so as to do the clever logic. I do also plan on basing on previous day's logs too
25/07/2006 22:24:54 ‹James› is there a good website to detail all the misterhouse structures, I didn't see much on the homepage
25/07/2006 22:25:38 ‹Gregg› ... short answer.. no. I still don't know all of it's capabilities and I've been a user/developer for years.
25/07/2006 22:26:37 ‹James› is there something on just the node-graph bit.. i'm curious
25/07/2006 22:27:13 ‹Gregg› Comments in the code headers. I'll try to pull something together for you and send it.
25/07/2006 22:27:27 ‹James› thanks.
25/07/2006 22:27:50 ‹James› one of the side effects of the jabber connector is adding this room grouping into xFP
25/07/2006 22:27:59 ‹Gregg› fwiw: I attempted to map presence and occupancy into a bsc representation w/i the bsc support fo rmh
25/07/2006 22:28:09 ‹James› so you can ask "are the sitting room lights on"
25/07/2006 22:28:15 ‹Gregg› Yeah--I'm quite interested in that
25/07/2006 22:28:39 ‹James› well it works!
25/07/2006 22:28:41 ‹James› :-)
25/07/2006 22:29:17 ‹James› these were from earlier
25/07/2006 22:29:20 ‹James› >it's now two apps, one that is a jabber connector/bot and the second app does all the questions and answers
25/07/2006 22:29:24 ‹Gregg› I'll be quite happy to test as that seems like a very secure way of controlling/interrogating remotely
25/07/2006 22:29:28 ‹James› >and "are the kitchen lights on?" does currently work
25/07/2006 22:29:35 ‹James› >also as it's now two apps you can post questions over http, xAP, jabber and probably sms too
25/07/2006 22:29:56 ‹James› >probably this week, the trouble is it's now a 4+ way app. the bot, the answer server and then Floorplan and switchboard for info.
25/07/2006 22:30:11 ‹James› yep, it does seem a nice interfacce
25/07/2006 22:30:55 ‹James› even just as text questions. in theory you could use custom xml and have rich remote control
25/07/2006 22:31:39 ‹Gregg› how precise must your question syntax be? will you allow regexs to permit sloppiness?
25/07/2006 22:32:32 ‹Gregg› or, cascaded "help" where you can enter a part of the syntax plus a question mark and get the available next part of the syntax
25/07/2006 22:32:54 ‹James› well i'm trying to make it be pretty vague, but there are limits. especially on the naming of devices
25/07/2006 22:33:03 ‹Gregg› I realize that's a lot more advanced; but, I bet I'd never remember command/question sytnax that I would define
25/07/2006 22:33:26 ‹Gregg› well, I can see that; otherwise, aliasing could result in bad outcomes
25/07/2006 22:33:37 ‹James› alot of it is modeled on the phrases xFP uses
25/07/2006 22:34:02 ‹Gregg› ... a plot to entice new xFP users ;)
25/07/2006 22:34:34 ‹James› indeed. When you say "is the light on?" the jabber bot sends a xAP to the answer server
25/07/2006 22:35:17 ‹James› that server then realises it's a device question and it does a http connection to xFP using the device name to get the data on the device. then it produces it's response
25/07/2006 22:35:17 ‹Gregg› can you make the bot be verbose about events that you care about?
25/07/2006 22:35:49 ‹Gregg› Perhaps, echo display messages at the least
25/07/2006 22:35:51 ‹James› it will have a display message filter
25/07/2006 22:36:04 ‹James› currently it relays every display message
25/07/2006 22:37:51 ‹James› it'll also refer to Switchboard so you can ask it for someones address
25/07/2006 22:38:36 ‹Gregg› oh--that's quite nice. Speaking of SB, can it run as a service?
25/07/2006 22:39:08 ‹James› also as all incoming messages and presence are relayed over xAP you can easily relay messages from other places
25/07/2006 22:39:17 ‹James› um, one sec. i think it does
25/07/2006 22:39:46 ‹Gregg› I was just about to ask. So, if a source of CID lookup info other than xSB exists, then your solution doesn't assume a running xSB? or does it?
25/07/2006 22:40:11 ‹James› yep it does
25/07/2006 22:40:36 ‹James› my solution for?
25/07/2006 22:40:52 ‹Gregg› So, is there a xAP query and response syntax for xSB?
25/07/2006 22:41:08 ‹James› no, but there is a http one
25/07/2006 22:41:15 ‹James› i need to doa xAP one
25/07/2006 22:41:20 ‹Gregg› your solution for ... CID-based lookup
25/07/2006 22:41:44 ‹Gregg› yeah--I would really like that as I can see more ways of integrating some of my stuff
25/07/2006 22:42:12 ‹James› xSB is my only source for cid lookup, it really assumes it's the only one
25/07/2006 22:42:24 ‹James› np, it's quite easy to add
25/07/2006 22:43:09 ‹Gregg› 1 possible reason is to allow axc to perform a CID lookup query and stuff the CID name back into the current call context
25/07/2006 22:43:53 ‹James› in that case axc would generate a cid.incoming and xSB already would respond with a cid.lookup message
25/07/2006 22:44:04 ‹Gregg› presumably, any xAP CID lookup could return all of the contact info--not just the name
25/07/2006 22:44:31 ‹James› yep, name company location std(area) photo url
25/07/2006 22:44:38 ‹James› and a couple of others
25/07/2006 22:46:31 ‹Gregg› would be nice if it would also indicate which telephone "type" (e.g, cell, office, home) served as the query
25/07/2006 22:47:15 ‹James› yep, thats there.
25/07/2006 22:47:38 ‹James› NumberType= Home|Work|Primary|Car|Mobile
25/07/2006 22:49:40 ‹Gregg› On a slightly (barely) related topic... are you aware of any xAP-enabled calendar app that might permit queries or initiate display messages, etc.?
25/07/2006 22:50:11 ‹James› my outlook plugin can do calendar alerts but thats about all
25/07/2006 22:50:24 ‹James› I would love to see an app to link to googlecalendar
25/07/2006 22:50:37 ‹Gregg› yeah!!
25/07/2006 22:50:57 ‹James› just needs to support ical i guess
25/07/2006 22:52:05 ‹Gregg› Well, maybe when I get through w/ xsip, I can take a look.
25/07/2006 22:52:25 ‹James› :-)
25/07/2006 22:56:00 ‹James› i need to dash, bfn until next week
25/07/2006 22:56:11 ‹Gregg› l8r