xAP Talk Transcript 2006 11 07
07/11/2006 15:04:55 * quit (timeout)
07/11/2006 15:05:31 ‹KevinH› May be back later if people are around then....
07/11/2006 15:13:38 * kevint joins My room
07/11/2006 15:14:20 ‹kevint› Hello?
07/11/2006 15:14:28 * James joins My room
07/11/2006 15:14:40 ‹James› hi
07/11/2006 15:15:11 * kevint joins My room
07/11/2006 15:15:21 * kevint joins My room
07/11/2006 15:15:26 ‹kevint› hi
07/11/2006 15:15:38 ‹kevint› Thanks for the link you sent
07/11/2006 15:15:49 ‹James› So, how are you drawing those little graphs??
07/11/2006 15:15:58 ‹James› lots of .line commands?
07/11/2006 15:16:01 ‹kevint› but it seems that Intel have withdrawn the dll
07/11/2006 15:16:25 ‹James› its quite easy to find
07/11/2006 15:16:46 ‹James› and the licenseis still useable
07/11/2006 15:17:29 ‹kevint› so just use the dll and sample code in the download zip then
07/11/2006 15:17:41 ‹James› :-)
07/11/2006 15:17:38 ‹kevint› yes line commands
07/11/2006 15:17:58 ‹James› well, they are very nice
07/11/2006 15:18:07 ‹kevint› currently updates once a second, but thats probably too fast
07/11/2006 15:18:34 ‹James› yep, it'll take up quite alot of cpu doing that
07/11/2006 15:19:19 ‹kevint› I need to think about scale though, currently 0 to 100 which wont cope with deg F or ppl who live in cold places
07/11/2006 15:19:39 ‹kevint› and there will always be one of each
07/11/2006 15:20:29 ‹James› yep, i know. every app I do that vaigly use temperature, the first request that comes in is for different units
07/11/2006 15:20:47 ‹kevint› (for the record we are talking about new apps for Quasar 3145 and Modon Design Temp05 Temperature interfaces)
07/11/2006 15:21:03 ‹James› I think i may have fixed teh intranet ocx's web server.. seesm to serve pretty damm well now
07/11/2006 15:21:05 ‹kevint› Midon Design
07/11/2006 15:21:35 ‹kevint› I was going to ask since you indicated your backlog was reducing....
07/11/2006 15:21:43 ‹kevint› well done about the ocx
07/11/2006 15:22:02 ‹James› ( i'm sure you break it though ;-) )
07/11/2006 15:22:12 ‹kevint› if you were considering updating xAPTV to the latest version
07/11/2006 15:22:24 ‹kevint› and xAP weather too
07/11/2006 15:23:05 ‹kevint› I need to do some updates here, you sneakily updated some of your apps I use when I wasnt here ;)
07/11/2006 15:23:08 ‹James› tv yes, must do that. Weather needs an overhaul. mine keeps dying sometimes but i can never make it die in the IDE so have no idea what causes it
07/11/2006 15:23:29 ‹James› I went on a release fest
07/11/2006 15:23:42 ‹kevint› Yes my weather dies regularly too
07/11/2006 15:23:44 ‹James› a new xAP speech will be along soon too
07/11/2006 15:23:52 ‹kevint› ;)
07/11/2006 15:24:14 ‹James› have you noticed any patern of it crashing?
07/11/2006 15:24:46 ‹kevint› Only that it does it when I'm not looking !
07/11/2006 15:25:31 ‹kevint› If you want to me to run a debug version, with log files, I would be happy to do that
07/11/2006 15:26:11 ‹kevint› What is the data source?
07/11/2006 15:27:00 ‹James› either a http download or a screen scrape from the bbc. Trouble is I think the error iis not in the processing but in the collecting
07/11/2006 15:27:48 ‹kevint› The BBC site is/was notorious for changing layout and format
07/11/2006 15:28:13 ‹James› yep
07/11/2006 15:29:06 ‹kevint› didnt we look at alternatives at some point?
07/11/2006 15:29:32 ‹James› there was a ayahoo feed airi
07/11/2006 15:30:08 * kevint joins My room
07/11/2006 15:30:27 ‹kevint› and wunderground does RSS
07/11/2006 15:31:02 ‹James› the rss is pretty nasty, a real feed is much nicer :-)
07/11/2006 15:31:36 ‹kevint› I have the wunderground rss in news
07/11/2006 15:32:00 ‹kevint› and one from weather channel
07/11/2006 15:32:44 ‹James› you like your weather then
07/11/2006 15:33:40 ‹kevint› I think they are left over from My search for a relaible feed
07/11/2006 15:33:43 ‹kevint› www.wunderground.com/aut ... ions/03373.xml?units=both
07/11/2006 15:35:59 ‹James› well the one for london is just the data from teh metar source, so you can use tht direct
07/11/2006 15:36:34 ‹kevint› I have just found an old 1-wire serial interface adaptor and an temperature Ibutton in the bottom of my toy box
07/11/2006 15:37:36 ‹kevint› need to find some example code or command lists that doesnt insist on loads of dlls being loaded
07/11/2006 15:37:41 ‹James› toy box, i thought it was a toy warehouse
07/11/2006 15:37:55 ‹kevint› you've been peaking
07/11/2006 15:38:08 ‹James› it's on google earth
07/11/2006 15:38:21 ‹kevint› ;)
07/11/2006 15:43:34 ‹KevinH› Back - but just for 5 mins (late food on its way)
07/11/2006 15:43:45 ‹kevint› Hi k
07/11/2006 15:43:50 ‹KevinH› Hi
07/11/2006 15:43:54 ‹James› hi
07/11/2006 15:44:20 ‹KevinH› K - did you get a Topfield recorder in teh end or did you go for Humax ?
07/11/2006 15:44:52 ‹kevint› I think you are confusing me with someone else, sorry
07/11/2006 15:45:23 ‹KevinH› he said playng with very rough xAP OSD for it..
07/11/2006 15:45:27 ‹kevint› are we talking TV to isc/
07/11/2006 15:45:36 ‹kevint› tv to disc
07/11/2006 15:45:43 ‹KevinH› Ohh. sorry - it wasn'y u J was it - seesm to rmmber was for a relaiveaybe
07/11/2006 15:46:03 ‹James› i got a humax ages ago, so it may of been me
07/11/2006 15:46:26 ‹KevinH› agh keyboard....
07/11/2006 15:46:55 ‹KevinH› sorry - wireless keyboard on lap out of range..
07/11/2006 15:47:02 ‹kevint› dyslexic fingers ;)
07/11/2006 15:50:40 ‹James› bfn (6000 is wifi too)
07/11/2006 15:50:47 ‹kevint› ;)
07/11/2006 15:52:04 ‹James› http://en.toppreise.ch/desc_98684.html
07/11/2006 15:53:00 ‹kevint› twin tuner, EPG and VFD display as well
07/11/2006 15:53:28 ‹James› it looks good
07/11/2006 15:53:33 ‹James› back in a sec
07/11/2006 15:54:07 ‹kevint› USB or WLAN, not wired?
07/11/2006 15:56:27 ‹kevint› and isnt that satelite rather than freeview?
07/11/2006 15:58:00 ‹James› dunno, they do both kinds
07/11/2006 15:59:35 ‹kevint› I guess we'll have to see when it gets here
07/11/2006 15:59:58 ‹James› yep
07/11/2006 16:04:14 ‹kevint› I have that sample code for the jpegs working, thanks
07/11/2006 16:04:50 ‹James› np
07/11/2006 16:19:15 ‹kevint› btw have you noticed that thw BBC news site is using a different icon for RSS mow?
07/11/2006 16:19:41 ‹James› i hadn't
07/11/2006 16:19:57 ‹kevint› orange thing with curves
07/11/2006 16:20:35 ‹James› orange, very un-bbc
07/11/2006 16:20:40 ‹kevint› probably think its less techie than ornge with xml written in it
07/11/2006 16:22:45 ‹James› they've just borrowed the firefox image
07/11/2006 16:23:04 ‹kevint› ahh
07/11/2006 16:37:16 ‹KevinH› back
07/11/2006 16:37:43 ‹KevinH› but very awkaward here - too much kit on the desk..
07/11/2006 16:41:45 ‹kevint› Oh hi again K
07/11/2006 16:41:59 ‹KevinH› hi
07/11/2006 16:43:20 ‹kevint› So preumably you have one of these topfield PVRS to test on?
07/11/2006 16:43:40 * lehane joins My room
07/11/2006 16:43:48 ‹lehane› hi all
07/11/2006 16:44:00 ‹kevint› evening ;)
07/11/2006 16:44:41 ‹kevint› I need to send you some TSC comments, bit J said you were about to reissue?
07/11/2006 16:45:09 ‹lehane› I was going to wait for your feedback first
07/11/2006 16:45:19 ‹kevint› ;)
07/11/2006 16:45:36 ‹lehane› and KH
07/11/2006 16:45:53 ‹kevint› from the apps I am currently working on there were two immediate comments
07/11/2006 16:46:25 ‹KevinH› Hi L.. sorry - yes I know they're long overdue :-(
07/11/2006 16:46:36 ‹kevint› one was wether ID= was needed for infos and events since they would almost always be single paramter messages
07/11/2006 16:47:16 ‹kevint› and secondly since these apps are data collectors rather than controllers
07/11/2006 16:47:42 ‹kevint› wether some parts of the messages like the setpoints wereoptional?
07/11/2006 16:48:47 ‹lehane› 2nd first - yes they are optional depending on the capabilities but the assumption is that many will be more 'black box' controllers than just sensors
07/11/2006 16:50:28 ‹lehane› ID is in to allow multiple parameters and for some equivalence with BSC
07/11/2006 16:51:01 ‹kevint› yes, but I think BSC does not use ID= in event and info
07/11/2006 16:51:40 ‹kevint› I can see the nees in commands where you want several things to happen at the "same"time
07/11/2006 16:52:11 ‹KevinH› it doesn't as it can alwaqys be recovered from the last two dogits of the UID - but quite a few people have asked why it wasn't also provided in infos/events - but i think we were right to not include it
07/11/2006 16:52:42 ‹KevinH› excuse really bad typing - circumstances require keyboard on lap ..
07/11/2006 16:53:57 ‹KevinH› I haven't got my hand scrawled notes here unfortunately as to some comments I had...
07/11/2006 16:54:26 ‹lehane› so I guess assuming UID's lengths get fixed then it can be standardised to only commands
07/11/2006 16:55:17 ‹KevinH› The UID's will have a : delimiter in them if they are increased which I hope should allow fairly easy recovery of the equivalent ID= value
07/11/2006 16:55:47 ‹KevinH› FF . 0123 : 2345
07/11/2006 16:56:01 ‹KevinH› ID=2345
07/11/2006 16:56:22 ‹kevint› I will re-read the spec I have annd send you mor comments by the end of te weekend
07/11/2006 16:56:30 ‹kevint› I Promise ;)
07/11/2006 16:56:53 ‹lehane› OK, it would be nice to get an issued out by Xmas
07/11/2006 16:56:58 ‹lehane› (g)
07/11/2006 16:57:12 ‹kevint› Sounds like a plan
07/11/2006 16:57:29 ‹KevinH› We now do have access to the xFX hub/viewer source code so I am hopeful we can update those apps to support the new UID format and the other niceities
07/11/2006 16:57:51 ‹lehane› SB back online?
07/11/2006 16:58:16 ‹KevinH› Yes and No - he's been in contact but may not be back in the fold just yet...
07/11/2006 16:58:44 ‹KevinH› He wasn't aware we were trying to contact him..
07/11/2006 16:59:39 ‹lehane› I take it Edward's Slim connector was a fresh start?
07/11/2006 16:59:51 ‹KevinH› I think I had some thoughts as to whether TSC should disclose ranges available and accuracy info but that was all extra stuff - there were one or two more fundamental thoughts
07/11/2006 17:00:11 ‹KevinH› Yes re the Slim conduit - it's in Perl
07/11/2006 17:00:42 ‹KevinH› also there was max and min issues and over what period to resolve
07/11/2006 17:00:55 ‹lehane› That's a surprise I expected it to be xFx in .NET 2.0
07/11/2006 17:01:20 ‹lehane› Periods are always going to be 'interesting' with sensors
07/11/2006 17:01:22 ‹KevinH› It's written in Perl so its a SlimServer plugin
07/11/2006 17:01:46 ‹KevinH› It runs within teh SlimServer code now :-0
07/11/2006 17:03:05 ‹lehane› Good, since the Squezebox is the alarm clock...
07/11/2006 17:04:03 ‹KevinH› What was the decided route around compound sensors L -- given I'm looking at a temp/humidity capable timer/thermostat
07/11/2006 17:06:13 ‹lehane› context in the body header and multi body message, from memory
07/11/2006 17:06:39 * KevinH joins My room
07/11/2006 17:07:14 ‹KevinH› so did each sensor have its own UID ?
07/11/2006 17:07:35 ‹KevinH› or was that areason for ID= in the body ?
07/11/2006 17:07:50 ‹lehane› I don't have the spec to hand :$
07/11/2006 17:08:35 ‹KevinH› NP -- I'll have aread and refresh myself but I have a feeling some of this was refined over a couple of xAPTalk nights
07/11/2006 17:08:52 ‹KevinH› with Gregg perhaps
07/11/2006 17:09:27 ‹lehane› I'll look back tomorrow
07/11/2006 17:10:29 ‹KevinH› Quick Q L -- where did you get the relay block from that you are using in your enclosures ?
07/11/2006 17:10:59 ‹lehane› ebay! I also got some 8 way blocks a while back too.
07/11/2006 17:11:39 ‹KevinH› Is it one block of relays - not individually attached ?
07/11/2006 17:12:00 ‹KevinH› Its nice... what would I serach for on eBay do you think ?
07/11/2006 17:12:28 ‹lehane› The big one is one PCB with 24 on. The 8 way is one PCB that can be split. "DIN rail" relay is the search
07/11/2006 17:13:03 ‹kevint› Thats got it now have jpg trends ;)
07/11/2006 17:13:14 ‹KevinH› .. is the 24 version in some way DIN rail attached ?
07/11/2006 17:15:28 ‹lehane› yes, the PCB is on a DIN mount. Most of these are ex process control. The 24 way is a french one, the 8 way IFL uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSear ... artDetail.jsp?SKU=3703654&;N=401
07/11/2006 17:16:30 ‹lehane› eek! 81quid each
07/11/2006 17:16:55 ‹KevinH› Farnell and RS always produce an eek
07/11/2006 17:17:18 ‹KevinH› The 24 way were low voltage coils or mains ?
07/11/2006 17:17:30 ‹lehane› All 24V DC coils
07/11/2006 17:17:55 ‹kevint› I bought a couple like that on ebay
07/11/2006 17:18:08 ‹KevinH› I could do with a biggish one to take 'in transit' light switches to netiom inputs - or some mains input opto isolators maybe
07/11/2006 17:19:11 ‹KevinH› in transit meaning I have the old switched mains available to switch - alternatively if I isolate more carefully I can probably drop that down to 12V or something
07/11/2006 17:19:28 ‹lehane› Probably do the opto route. OK, I have to cut and run I'm afraid.......
07/11/2006 17:19:39 ‹KevinH› 'switched live' from the old switches - makes better sense
07/11/2006 17:20:02 ‹KevinH› night there !
07/11/2006 17:20:11 ‹KevinH› opto is neater
07/11/2006 17:20:25 ‹lehane› ..need to talk about touch screens and menus next time! Night all
07/11/2006 17:20:30 * lehane quit
07/11/2006 17:20:38 ‹KevinH› sounds interesting - look forward
07/11/2006 17:20:39 ‹kevint› bye
07/11/2006 17:20:49 ‹KevinH› KT - you got your Ajax working !
07/11/2006 17:21:03 ‹kevint› Sounds like J might have to dust off some code
07/11/2006 17:21:28 ‹kevint› no, but I have made other progress
07/11/2006 17:21:54 ‹KevinH› ahh - thought I saw something about 1 sec refreshes
07/11/2006 17:22:19 ‹kevint› My quasar app soes the standard stuff and has a web page but I have been working on a trend graph per input
07/11/2006 17:22:26 ‹James› back
07/11/2006 17:23:06 ‹kevint› which I can now save to jpg and make available on its own web page and also serve to xFP hopefully
07/11/2006 17:23:14 ‹kevint› plus
07/11/2006 17:24:00 ‹KevinH› ahh interesting - look forward to that !
07/11/2006 17:24:01 ‹kevint› I have pretty much the same app and capabilities for a Midon Deign Temp05 or Temp08 (untested but should be ok)
07/11/2006 17:24:18 ‹KevinH› What does teh graph info to JPG ?
07/11/2006 17:25:04 ‹kevint› you mean how do I do it? or what does it show you?
07/11/2006 17:25:08 ‹James› i have to say i do really like graphs in apps. Makes the display of data much nicer
07/11/2006 17:25:28 ‹kevint› picture is worth a thousand words , etc
07/11/2006 17:25:48 ‹kevint› can I put pics in here?
07/11/2006 17:26:08 ‹KevinH› J - yes but it does make bigger apps...
07/11/2006 17:26:51 ‹James› kt, no kh, true but It's a very reusable feature
07/11/2006 17:26:52 ‹KevinH› I meant the practicalities of converting the data to a jpg
07/11/2006 17:27:07 ‹James› and anyway I can borrow code from KT now ;-)
07/11/2006 17:27:56 ‹kevint› Well I cannot claim to be the original author, I came accross something a while ago and saved it
07/11/2006 17:28:09 ‹kevint› then adapted it
07/11/2006 17:28:24 ‹kevint› its line drawing in a picturebox basically
07/11/2006 17:29:34 ‹James› ends up as a nice graph though
07/11/2006 17:30:04 ‹KevinH› look forward to seeing it ..
07/11/2006 17:31:55 ‹kevint› on Skype?
07/11/2006 17:32:49 ‹kevint› J already has seen the big pic or very similar
07/11/2006 17:32:54 ‹KevinH› Can you add 'text' as well - eg for the axis naming - or do you have to draw it with dots/lines ?
07/11/2006 17:33:12 ‹kevint› That is one od the issues
07/11/2006 17:33:23 ‹kevint› scaling being the other
07/11/2006 17:34:03 ‹KevinH› ahh - ok...
07/11/2006 17:34:26 ‹kevint› but the main point is that it is an updating Trend, where trend is the most useful idea
07/11/2006 17:34:35 ‹KevinH› true
07/11/2006 17:36:27 ‹kevint› So are you using a Tom10?
07/11/2006 17:37:28 ‹KevinH› The problem with TOM10 is that they need polling - they don't spew out data like the Quasars
07/11/2006 17:37:45 ‹KevinH› So Quasars are more easily added to say a Netiom serial port
07/11/2006 17:38:02 ‹KevinH› But I do use a TOM10 on my heating
07/11/2006 17:38:20 * kevint quit (timeout)
07/11/2006 17:38:51 * kevint joins My room
07/11/2006 17:38:51 ‹James› he ran away
07/11/2006 17:39:03 ‹KevinH› obviously ..
07/11/2006 17:39:10 ‹kevint› im back
07/11/2006 17:39:22 ‹kevint› why obviously
07/11/2006 17:39:34 ‹KevinH› I still haven't fixed my C issue yet .. but I'm on teh track...
07/11/2006 17:39:40 ‹kevint› and tom10s are no longer available?
07/11/2006 17:40:01 ‹KevinH› I think apparently would have been better
07/11/2006 17:40:45 ‹kevint› I have just sent you version 1 of the quasar web page
07/11/2006 17:40:54 ‹KevinH› Justin is really difficult to get in contact with so i think maybe the answer is .. no longer
07/11/2006 17:41:17 ‹kevint› Do you skype no longer james?
07/11/2006 17:41:31 ‹KevinH› But I did contact him around 3 months ago and got another for someone
07/11/2006 17:41:47 ‹James› i've gone jabber for now
07/11/2006 17:42:27 ‹kevint› says off line with call forwarding
07/11/2006 17:44:25 ‹kevint› and jabber says you dont exist
07/11/2006 17:44:53 ‹James› i'm online and so is KH
07/11/2006 17:45:17 ‹James› "roll on D.." as he says
07/11/2006 17:45:30 ‹KevinH› mine's quite philosophical - it says J been idle for over 30 mins ..
07/11/2006 17:45:50 ‹kevint› I thought he was being quiet
07/11/2006 17:46:11 ‹KevinH› got to be a step up from C !
07/11/2006 17:46:14 ‹James› i should be in the roster twice. I'm still logged on at work
07/11/2006 17:46:46 ‹KevinH› 3 times actually
07/11/2006 17:47:07 ‹KevinH› - looking for a part in The FlowerPot Men ?
07/11/2006 17:48:02 ‹James› cgi.ebay ... ZViewItem
07/11/2006 17:52:15 ‹KevinH› Mr Flibble does not possess Hex Vision
07/11/2006 17:53:25 ‹James› no one can argue with flibble
07/11/2006 17:54:32 ‹James› i think i just got basic authentication into the intranet ocx :-)
07/11/2006 17:57:30 ‹kevint› I was looking at jabber stuff - My favourite is the weather service, add <CITY-CODE>@weather.jabber.zim.net.au to your Jabber roster, and this user will display the current weather at that location in their status. To find your the city code, go to weather.yahoo.com for example, and use the code that forms part of the url as the user part of the Jabber
07/11/2006 17:57:47 ‹kevint› should hav been quotes after the dash
07/11/2006 17:58:13 ‹James› you and the weather again ;-)
07/11/2006 17:59:03 ‹kevint› sory , thats the problem with being english
07/11/2006 18:02:08 ‹kevint› and anyway I cant see them either
07/11/2006 18:05:34 ‹KevinH› J - do you know if E has seen the xFX code ?
07/11/2006 18:05:47 ‹James› yes he has got it
07/11/2006 18:05:58 ‹KevinH› good
07/11/2006 18:11:46 * kevint quit (timeout)
07/11/2006 18:13:00 ‹James› it works!
07/11/2006 18:13:31 ‹James› i can now do authentication on any intranet page based on page and/or IP :-)
07/11/2006 18:16:29 ‹KevinH› good stuff - and you got the refresh issues sorted too I gather ...
07/11/2006 18:16:56 ‹James› well they are better
07/11/2006 18:17:37 ‹James› i'll send over an ocx if you like, actually probably best to wait to see if i broke anything
07/11/2006 18:19:02 ‹KevinH› yep - probably best as I'll ahve almost zero time for a while to actually provide any feedback
07/11/2006 18:19:38 ‹James› it'll be quite a releif for you when you get thie box finished!
07/11/2006 18:20:07 ‹KevinH› It's just taht I have made almost zero progress in 2 weeks.. and it was all going so well
07/11/2006 18:20:36 ‹KevinH› I ahve an overflowing string or a pointer to a string thats getting trashed somehwere
07/11/2006 18:20:38 ‹James› no time like the present
07/11/2006 18:21:00 ‹James› big glass of red wine and off you go
07/11/2006 18:21:28 ‹KevinH› but I can now see textual sub addresses that start out OK but become corrupted in time so at least there's evidence to follow now
07/11/2006 18:21:57 ‹James› at least its a place to start
07/11/2006 18:21:59 ‹KevinH› Stuarts Viewer re-arranges message order sometimes though
07/11/2006 18:22:33 ‹James› it does indeed
07/11/2006 18:22:36 ‹KevinH› I think it may recover from a buffer or stack push in the wrong order maybe in heavy traffic
07/11/2006 18:24:31 ‹James› and you never kno if it's viewer doing it or the hub