xAP Talk Transcript 2006 12 05
05/12/2006 14:56:39 * rodegebd joins My room
05/12/2006 14:56:47 * rodegebd quit
05/12/2006 14:56:51 * rodegebd changes his/her nickname to drodegeb
05/12/2006 14:56:59 * drodegeb joins My room
05/12/2006 14:57:17 ‹drodegeb› How are things?
05/12/2006 14:58:15 ‹James› kind of busy at the mo. Doing about 10 things at once!
05/12/2006 14:59:05 ‹James› i've got a load of xAP updates to get out just havn't the time to get them out :-(
05/12/2006 14:59:08 ‹drodegeb› Same here. Lots of things to get ready for Christmas, 3yr olds birthday, Pregnant Sick Wife,
05/12/2006 14:59:32 ‹drodegeb› xap updates? With a certain app, or protocol updates?
05/12/2006 14:59:46 ‹James› floorplan tv and speech
05/12/2006 14:59:53 ‹James› and the ocx
05/12/2006 15:00:24 ‹drodegeb› Cool.. I would love to get back into developing the xap apps that I had planned to do, but that isn't happening.
05/12/2006 15:00:45 ‹James› a new year's resolution then
05/12/2006 15:00:58 * Kevin H joins My room
05/12/2006 15:01:08 ‹James› hi k
05/12/2006 15:01:17 ‹Kevin H› Evening all
05/12/2006 15:01:43 ‹drodegeb› Hey Kevin
05/12/2006 15:02:00 ‹Kevin H› Lot's of stocking fillers expected then J ;-)
05/12/2006 15:02:25 ‹Kevin H› Things are really busy here too
05/12/2006 15:04:03 ‹Kevin H› J - is the FP on your site the latest released version - I have been running FP for a while now and just today it asked me to update but teh 'new' version seems to be Oct
05/12/2006 15:04:14 ‹James› All the apps are done just need a bit of polish, and that takes aages
05/12/2006 15:04:33 ‹James› yes it the latest
05/12/2006 15:04:37 ‹Kevin H› That final polish is a really depressing bit to do
05/12/2006 15:04:53 ‹Kevin H› as it seesm you're not making progress...
05/12/2006 15:05:19 ‹Kevin H› but it has to be done sometime I guess
05/12/2006 15:05:21 ‹James› the unreleased FP now auto detects raw devices, adds the devices, downloads icons, custom htmls
05/12/2006 15:05:40 ‹Kevin H› sounds great
05/12/2006 15:05:55 ‹James› for a slim3 you simply place a device on a map and get full transport control with live status on the floorplan
05/12/2006 15:05:59 ‹Kevin H› I have food coming shortly - I hope - I'm starving
05/12/2006 15:06:00 ‹drodegeb› Wow, sounds like a lot of changes since the last time I looked at it.
05/12/2006 15:06:29 ‹James› It now has the cup of tea installer that I like
05/12/2006 15:06:38 ‹Kevin H› We talked once about enumerating valid states somehow didn't we....
05/12/2006 15:06:54 ‹James› and that was as far as it got.
05/12/2006 15:07:00 ‹Kevin H› and havinga mechanism to expose them
05/12/2006 15:07:04 ‹James› I'm using the Homeseer schema db
05/12/2006 15:07:09 ‹Kevin H› ... yes we did teh easy bit ..
05/12/2006 15:07:20 ‹James› so updates help both apps
05/12/2006 15:07:25 ‹Kevin H› So commonality across to HS then
05/12/2006 15:07:41 ‹Kevin H› I see HS are raising their prices too
05/12/2006 15:07:53 ‹James› yep, but with FP being better ;-)
05/12/2006 15:08:06 ‹Kevin H› of course..
05/12/2006 15:08:17 ‹James› Seeing the live slimp3 on a webpage is like that initial wow when xDesktop came out
05/12/2006 15:09:21 ‹James› remote authentication works well now too. I was controlling the house happily from work today
05/12/2006 15:12:41 ‹Kevin H› I'm still Rabbiting away.. but i do have more headway memory wise as I mentioned so looks like I can get xAP and C-Bus and HV all in one
05/12/2006 15:13:34 ‹James› well done, I'm just amazed what you can fit in to them
05/12/2006 15:13:37 ‹Kevin H› Please don't ask about Ocelot or Leopard support ;-) (just pre-empting a Q I see coming)
05/12/2006 15:13:51 ‹James› dmx?
05/12/2006 15:14:23 ‹Kevin H› I haven't even considered DMX ...
05/12/2006 15:14:31 ‹James› you have now
05/12/2006 15:14:40 ‹Kevin H› poss quite do-able via teh Milford interface
05/12/2006 15:15:20 ‹James› for the todolist then
05/12/2006 15:15:56 ‹Kevin H› I just thought I saw that coming from Dave
05/12/2006 15:17:09 ‹James› so when are you aiming for release?
05/12/2006 15:17:21 ‹Kevin H› I wonder if E has made any progress on xFX for larger UID support as it's driving me mad atm
05/12/2006 15:17:51 ‹James› no idea
05/12/2006 15:18:01 ‹Kevin H› This week to a couple of early 'labrats'
05/12/2006 15:18:22 ‹James› I'd call them gerbils
05/12/2006 15:18:29 ‹Kevin H› The HV stuff is fne - but teh xAP stuff is partial
05/12/2006 15:18:53 ‹Kevin H› only because I can't do teh wildcard matching too well yet - as teh names table sits in HV
05/12/2006 15:19:04 ‹Kevin H› sorry gotta go - back later - food
05/12/2006 15:19:14 ‹James› bfn
05/12/2006 15:27:07 ‹James› .
05/12/2006 15:46:32 * Edward joins My room
05/12/2006 15:46:48 ‹James› hi e
05/12/2006 15:46:57 ‹Edward› My ears must have been buring!
05/12/2006 15:47:07 ‹Edward› burning
05/12/2006 15:47:16 ‹James› don't worry he's gone now
05/12/2006 15:47:29 ‹James› I;ve got a slimserver request though
05/12/2006 15:47:49 ‹James› It's how it deals with IR passthough.
05/12/2006 15:47:50 ‹Edward› Oh joy! - Do you want it to make noises?
05/12/2006 15:48:01 ‹Edward› OK...
05/12/2006 15:48:02 ‹James› It seems to create hugh numbers of messages
05/12/2006 15:48:26 ‹James› so a single quick button press ends up in at least 3 or 4 messages
05/12/2006 15:49:13 ‹Edward› yes, it does
05/12/2006 15:49:13 ‹James› any chance of have a limit on repeat messages from the same button, say 2 per second?
05/12/2006 15:49:43 ‹Edward› well, anything is possible!
05/12/2006 15:49:53 ‹James› like a 'de-bounce' you would have on a button
05/12/2006 15:50:22 ‹Edward› but what if you wanted the repeats
05/12/2006 15:50:42 ‹Edward› if you were scrolling a list, say
05/12/2006 15:51:25 ‹James› there's a limit to the number per second you would want. I agree it must repeat, but it should really only output 1 message for a button press
05/12/2006 15:51:56 ‹James› maybe if you hold a button down for a 1/2 second it then goes to a faster repeat
05/12/2006 15:52:19 ‹Edward› I see what you mean - right now I'm being faithful to what's happening inside SlimServer
05/12/2006 15:52:48 ‹Edward› All those (internal) messages are flying around in there
05/12/2006 15:53:00 ‹James› it's just hard on a event system that responds to a certain button and it get triggered a large amount of times
05/12/2006 15:53:25 ‹Edward› And it wears the wires out
05/12/2006 15:53:41 ‹Edward› I'll put it on the wish list
05/12/2006 15:53:44 ‹James› and the blinky lights in the switch
05/12/2006 15:53:48 ‹James› ta
05/12/2006 15:54:14 ‹Edward› Right now I'm having too much fun with Dynalite, SQL Server, Perl and CD ripping
05/12/2006 15:54:20 ‹James› everything else seems very stable, no new issues to report
05/12/2006 15:55:04 ‹Edward› I spotted the "blank display" issue here, just once, caught it out of the corner of my eye - grrrrr
05/12/2006 15:55:05 ‹James› how much dynalite do you have?
05/12/2006 15:55:24 ‹James› well it's very repeat able here!
05/12/2006 15:55:25 ‹Edward› About 2Kg
05/12/2006 15:55:38 ‹Edward› Sorry - it's been a long day
05/12/2006 15:55:43 ‹James› still boxed then
05/12/2006 15:55:56 ‹Edward› Counts on fingers...
05/12/2006 15:56:24 ‹Edward› 24 dimmer channels - 8 relay channels and 9 control panels
05/12/2006 15:56:39 ‹James› lots of installing to do then
05/12/2006 15:56:41 ‹Edward› (all wired up)
05/12/2006 15:56:56 ‹James› be that took a while
05/12/2006 15:56:57 ‹Edward› Install is all done
05/12/2006 15:57:20 ‹Edward› It's the xAP interface...
05/12/2006 15:57:38 ‹Edward› Having fun = doing smart things
05/12/2006 15:57:52 ‹Edward› Like controlling the lights from the Slim player
05/12/2006 15:58:06 ‹James› :-) (I)
05/12/2006 15:58:11 ‹Edward› (well, I think that's smart anyway)
05/12/2006 15:58:52 ‹James› you could trigger light moods based on the genre of muci played on the slim
05/12/2006 15:59:05 ‹James› muci-music
05/12/2006 16:00:14 ‹Edward› you could (but that might not be smart)
05/12/2006 16:01:00 ‹James› could be interesting though
05/12/2006 16:02:01 * Lexfordparc (Pa joins My room
05/12/2006 16:02:33 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› Good evening all
05/12/2006 16:02:42 ‹James› evening
05/12/2006 16:04:34 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› Hope everyone is well
05/12/2006 16:05:02 ‹James› i think we are all in that pre-christmas busy mode
05/12/2006 16:05:18 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› Don't work is hell
05/12/2006 16:05:25 * max joins My room
05/12/2006 16:05:49 ‹max› evening all
05/12/2006 16:06:01 ‹James› hi max
05/12/2006 16:08:18 ‹max› edward, is BSC control of slim players working in the connector?
05/12/2006 16:08:50 ‹Edward› Hi
05/12/2006 16:08:57 ‹Edward› Yes, in a simple way
05/12/2006 16:09:15 ‹Edward› each Player is a BSC level endpoint
05/12/2006 16:09:28 ‹Edward› on/off controls its power
05/12/2006 16:09:35 ‹Edward› the level controls its volume
05/12/2006 16:09:51 ‹Edward› planned extensions are to
05/12/2006 16:10:27 ‹Edward› have a bunch of endpoints for each player to control play/pause, volume, power, display brighness
05/12/2006 16:10:59 ‹Edward› Or do you mean it seems broken
05/12/2006 16:11:01 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› How easy is it to create custom xPA messages to send to Slim?
05/12/2006 16:11:10 ‹max› i don't appear to have BSC control of power and volume here.
05/12/2006 16:11:33 ‹James› L, from what app do you want to send the messages?
05/12/2006 16:11:52 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I want to "play" and learn
05/12/2006 16:12:19 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› Currently have the GUI Hub installed so can see messages
05/12/2006 16:12:22 ‹Edward› Since they are BSC messages, you need to target them to the specific player - are you doing that?
05/12/2006 16:12:29 ‹James› there are command line xAP senders that just take a text file with the message in it
05/12/2006 16:12:30 ‹max› i've added a player to a floorplan map, the controls appear and the relevent messages can be seen in viewer, but i never get a response from the player
05/12/2006 16:12:41 ‹James› Viewer can send messages fro it's gui
05/12/2006 16:13:13 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› Thanks I'll have a look
05/12/2006 16:14:04 ‹James› Floorplan can do raw messages , use scripts to build messages and has 'autoscripts' which are like templated messages, soa bit more point and clcik
05/12/2006 16:14:18 ‹max› just double checked, target and id are fine
05/12/2006 16:14:35 ‹Edward› Max, how do you mean "never get a response"? xAP response or player action?
05/12/2006 16:14:59 ‹max› no response with a player action
05/12/2006 16:15:05 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I prefer CLI to GUI
05/12/2006 16:15:55 ‹James› as xAP is just a udp you can send easily from php,perl,vb anything really
05/12/2006 16:16:45 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› okay is it possible from vbs (or even Powershell)?
05/12/2006 16:17:01 ‹Edward› xFx has xAP send CLI
05/12/2006 16:17:26 ‹Edward› I call that from vbs for a couple of things (eg, DigiGuide)
05/12/2006 16:17:27 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› xFx is the Framework Ed based on .Net?
05/12/2006 16:17:43 ‹Edward› Stuart based on .Net
05/12/2006 16:17:54 ‹Edward› (can't take that credit)
05/12/2006 16:18:06 ‹James› in vbs you can create a winsock object and use that to send udp
05/12/2006 16:18:11 ‹Edward› but yes - xFx = shorthand for xAP Framework
05/12/2006 16:18:19 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› ok I hear that it is been updated to .Net 2.0?
05/12/2006 16:18:34 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› sorry for the basic questions
05/12/2006 16:18:49 ‹Edward› (shuffles a little) - it's a work in progress (.Net 2.0)
05/12/2006 16:19:17 ‹Edward› I've taken that on from Stuart - so I've quite a learning curve to go up
05/12/2006 16:20:22 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› So as a newcomer to HA and xPA what are most people using as the HA hardware interface, x10?
05/12/2006 16:20:43 ‹James› x10 and netiom here
05/12/2006 16:20:54 ‹James› KH, is a c-bus guy
05/12/2006 16:21:42 ‹drodegeb› X10
05/12/2006 16:21:58 ‹Edward› X10, Dynalite, Slimserver
05/12/2006 16:22:01 ‹James› xAP tends to end up with a hyprid of types rather than one specific system
05/12/2006 16:22:17 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I am using Idratek (incredible levels of support so far) have asked them about xPA as they currently only support xPL
05/12/2006 16:22:43 ‹James› were they open to making a xAP plugin?
05/12/2006 16:23:54 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› To be honest they seem to be open to most things if enough people request it. I have had a few exchanges of email and am expecting a conversation with one of the developers soon
05/12/2006 16:24:25 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I would love to use xPA and interface to Squeezebox from Idratek
05/12/2006 16:24:29 ‹James› If they have questions feel free to give them my email if needed
05/12/2006 16:24:31 ‹Edward› Looked at the Idratek stuff - seems very cool
05/12/2006 16:24:57 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I must say I am very, very impressed
05/12/2006 16:25:38 ‹max› Did I see someone mention an intranet enabled Quasar app a few weeks back?
05/12/2006 16:25:56 ‹James› KevinT has one
05/12/2006 16:26:03 ‹James› even has pretty graphs
05/12/2006 16:26:22 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I am after sub-electric metering and sent an email to them for a DIN based meter with pulse output, asking if it would work. They took my info and made direct contact with the DIN manufacturer to find out details
05/12/2006 16:27:04 ‹max› I'll see if I can snag a copy off him offlist then :)
05/12/2006 16:27:26 ‹James› i've seen screenshots so i know it exists ;-)
05/12/2006 16:27:32 ‹James› back in 2
05/12/2006 16:28:13 ‹Edward› Metering - so you're going green then?
05/12/2006 16:29:43 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› Yes. So much makes sense. I was shocked to find we use 200% of the average household consumption of electricity
05/12/2006 16:31:02 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I really like what you are doing Ed. The SB3 is a great device with a lovely display
05/12/2006 16:32:28 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› when is the next beta going to be released?
05/12/2006 16:35:38 ‹James› i still like my retro slimp3 display ;-)
05/12/2006 16:37:23 ‹Edward› No release plan at the moment - just two defect reported at the moment and I can't reproduce either reliably
05/12/2006 16:37:35 ‹Edward› Do you have issues with the current beta?
05/12/2006 16:38:51 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› Nope, just a feature geek
05/12/2006 16:39:02 ‹Edward› Cool!
05/12/2006 16:39:18 ‹Edward› You're in goo company
05/12/2006 16:39:24 ‹Edward› goo = good
05/12/2006 16:39:39 ‹Edward› (or maybe not)
05/12/2006 16:40:18 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I like the idea of using the slim panel it is very high quality
05/12/2006 16:41:23 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› so telephone caller id, sms, washing machine complete, etc can all be broadcasted throug slimserver and multi-room audio
05/12/2006 16:42:35 ‹James› you can use xAP speech to create TTS announcements as wav files and then get them played through the slims too.
05/12/2006 16:43:27 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› TTS??
05/12/2006 16:43:39 ‹James› Text To Speech
05/12/2006 16:43:55 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› cheers
05/12/2006 16:44:28 ‹James› also don't forget about sending IR through a slimp3 that triggers other xAP devices
05/12/2006 16:45:41 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› that is further on I haven't incorporated IR yet. Still a bench project at the mo
05/12/2006 16:46:03 ‹James› well it's good when you get to it!
05/12/2006 16:46:44 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› ok. is IR the future or WiFi
05/12/2006 16:47:15 ‹James› future is hybrid. use everything
05/12/2006 16:48:11 ‹James› wifi is poor for simple control as it uses lots of power fso device needs lots of charging. IR remote are nice and simple
05/12/2006 16:50:10 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› true but it is poor for higher bandwidth functions? I.e graphical feedback
05/12/2006 16:51:41 ‹James› yep, nothing is perfect fo a role, you just pick whatever is closest. If they can all talk xAP then it doesn't matter as you can chop and change between them
05/12/2006 16:52:22 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› yepp see that and I like, transport agnostic
05/12/2006 16:52:46 ‹James› my nokia 770 makes a nice wifi remote, but i still use a spare button on the TV's IR remote as a quick simple lights on/off button
05/12/2006 16:54:22 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I would like a cheap-ish touchscreen solution for control
05/12/2006 16:54:45 ‹James› 770 is pretty cheap
05/12/2006 16:54:57 ‹James› battery is good too
05/12/2006 16:55:09 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› seen it mentiond am awful lot on Slim
05/12/2006 16:55:12 * max quit (timeout)
05/12/2006 16:55:30 ‹James› there is a skin pre made for teh 770 in the slimserver
05/12/2006 16:56:17 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› I have read it can be a bit slow, what is your experience?
05/12/2006 16:57:16 ‹James› it's certainly not the fastest, it's ok. certainly useable.
05/12/2006 16:57:28 ‹James› It's mail client however is totally useless!
05/12/2006 16:57:50 ‹James› the screen is absolutly lovely
05/12/2006 16:58:19 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› well I like a Blackberry for simple text email and a laptop for a longer email
05/12/2006 16:59:16 ‹James› you'll be fine then. It's really just aa web tablet
05/12/2006 16:59:23 ‹James› opera browser
05/12/2006 17:00:08 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› right time for beauty sleep and more work tomorrow
05/12/2006 17:00:10 ‹James› and if you're into unix you can forward X applications to it
05/12/2006 17:00:15 ‹Lexfordparc (Pa› good night
05/12/2006 17:00:58 ‹James› nite