xAP Talk Transcript 2007 01 16
16/01/2007 15:58:13 ‹James› yay, someone to talk to!
16/01/2007 15:58:25 ‹lehane› been quiet of late?
16/01/2007 15:58:29 ‹James› hi
16/01/2007 15:58:35 ‹James› very
16/01/2007 15:58:55 ‹lehane› yes, the forums seem to have been quiet too....#
16/01/2007 15:58:57 ‹James› then i went away for 5 mins and Jeff came and went .. typical
16/01/2007 15:59:52 ‹James› floorplan is taking my time at the moment... I've got an annoying bug thats proving hard to find
16/01/2007 16:00:30 ‹lehane› intermittent?
16/01/2007 16:01:13 ‹James› it part of the occupancy code. and to simulate the fault I have to trigger sensors in an order
16/01/2007 16:01:26 ‹James› that order makes getting back tot he app awkward!
16/01/2007 16:01:59 ‹James› i've fixed those blank delete pages btw
16/01/2007 16:02:16 ‹lehane› yuk. I've been having fun with the xsd tool in .NET that doesn't like nested arrays..
16/01/2007 16:03:35 ‹James› that could make processing harder, ro certainly more long winded
16/01/2007 16:03:43 ‹lehane› which I want for the touch panel. Had to hand crank the generated class. That's good. Can you talk through how anonymous users works?
16/01/2007 16:04:12 ‹James› sure
16/01/2007 16:04:44 ‹lehane› if I create a user then it always asks for a user..
16/01/2007 16:04:46 ‹James› when set to anonymous that item shouldn't ask for any authentication
16/01/2007 16:05:43 ‹James› so if the top row is all green then there should be no password boxes
16/01/2007 16:06:12 ‹lehane› nope, I get a user/password request
16/01/2007 16:06:33 ‹James› on what page?
16/01/2007 16:07:12 ‹lehane› default (so x.x.x.x/:53000)
16/01/2007 16:07:33 ‹lehane› or even x.x.x.x:53000/
16/01/2007 16:07:34 ‹James› and what is the default page set to?
16/01/2007 16:09:05 ‹lehane› groundfloor. And that is green across the three default users + 1 the one created
16/01/2007 16:09:51 ‹James› i presume if you enter a valid user it lets you in?
16/01/2007 16:10:05 ‹lehane› yes, that works fine
16/01/2007 16:10:23 ‹KevinH› back - but just absorbed in a rebuild currently.....
16/01/2007 16:10:33 ‹lehane› hi kevin
16/01/2007 16:10:34 ‹KevinH› Hi both
16/01/2007 16:10:38 ‹James› hi k
16/01/2007 16:11:01 ‹James› could you try the same setup but using a non map page as the default, say the log page?
16/01/2007 16:11:19 ‹lehane› ok - back in a sec..
16/01/2007 16:12:30 ‹lehane› yes, that lets me in and I can then navigate to groundfloor
16/01/2007 16:13:00 ‹James› K, Stuart's going to transfer the framework dns over to mi4 btw
16/01/2007 16:13:08 ‹James› ok, last question.
16/01/2007 16:13:49 ‹James› When you got teh password box before did the map show underneath but with no icons. ie was the password box for the icons or the map
16/01/2007 16:14:26 ‹lehane› there was no map displayed prior to the user/password prompt
16/01/2007 16:14:54 ‹James› interesting.. but obviously all wrong!
16/01/2007 16:15:29 ‹James› is it just call groundfloor or does it have any odd characters in there
16/01/2007 16:16:12 ‹lehane› just "Groundfloor"
16/01/2007 16:16:41 ‹James› spooky, I called my ground floor map that too
16/01/2007 16:18:50 ‹James› let me send a new biiuld over as the sequence you described is ok here. You can also play with the nearly working occupancy bit ;-)
16/01/2007 16:19:49 ‹lehane› mmm. OK, as soon as I set the default to a page with a map it requests user/pass
16/01/2007 16:21:23 * James joins My room
16/01/2007 16:21:52 ‹James› arg, f5 on wring app. K could you save the chat history you've got!
16/01/2007 16:23:19 ‹KevinH› done
16/01/2007 16:23:36 ‹lehane› Changing the subject, from the end of last weeks talk, is a new xFX hub on the way?
16/01/2007 16:23:58 ‹James› no
16/01/2007 16:24:07 ‹James› it has arrived ;-)
16/01/2007 16:24:23 ‹James› well under test.. Edward has been a busy boy
16/01/2007 16:24:30 ‹KevinH› Have u a service build J ?
16/01/2007 16:24:48 ‹lehane› excellent. so I better get my PIC UID code sorted!
16/01/2007 16:24:56 ‹James› i've got the same set as you
16/01/2007 16:25:17 ‹KevinH› The console one and Viewer
16/01/2007 16:25:42 ‹KevinH› np
16/01/2007 16:25:49 ‹James› Also modding TSC to be aware of the alternate uids
16/01/2007 16:26:02 ‹James› speaking of TSC...
16/01/2007 16:26:12 ‹KevinH› I have some UID things to look at in teh HomeVison conduit too
16/01/2007 16:26:43 ‹James› i've got loads of uid stuff to lookat :-(
16/01/2007 16:27:15 ‹lehane› TSC..yes it would be good to kick it off again..
16/01/2007 16:27:31 ‹James› maybe move it to the xap dev list
16/01/2007 16:28:16 ‹lehane› I could put V0.41 up for comment
16/01/2007 16:28:50 ‹James› why not, there is no real reson to keep it quiet
16/01/2007 16:29:39 ‹lehane› it has been thrashed about a bit already, so yes probably a good idea.
16/01/2007 16:30:49 ‹James› when you mentioned the PIC earlier, was that the one in connection with the LCD or is it another little project?
16/01/2007 16:31:59 ‹lehane› I have that, an RS485 lightswitch, a TOM10 replacement and a BSC mapper on the go....
16/01/2007 16:32:39 ‹James› so quite a few little projects then
16/01/2007 16:32:45 ‹KevinH› You dont want my BSC Mapper then :'( I'm sure a PIC based one is a lot lower cost
16/01/2007 16:33:13 ‹James› do PICs have ethernet?
16/01/2007 16:33:16 ‹KevinH› How do you configure it L ? Or is it not that far yet ?
16/01/2007 16:33:39 ‹lehane› I didn't know you'd done it! This uses the Modtronix board with a FRAM. About 45quid each
16/01/2007 16:33:49 ‹lehane› Web interface in the EEPROM
16/01/2007 16:34:00 ‹KevinH› I used a xAP message to add and delete mappings
16/01/2007 16:34:25 ‹KevinH› I was going to add a web interface but at the time I was stuck for space
16/01/2007 16:34:40 ‹lehane› Yes, that's why I had to go for the board with FRAM
16/01/2007 16:34:59 ‹James› FRAM?
16/01/2007 16:35:03 ‹KevinH› The xAP classes are quite good as you can build hardware BSC maps on teh fly - eg from FP perhpas
16/01/2007 16:35:50 ‹lehane› One other potential (cheap) project is a watchdog - watches n number of devices and if one or more fail executes some xAP messages
16/01/2007 16:36:18 ‹lehane› since I use xAP for the heating there are some failures that would leave it fired up!
16/01/2007 16:37:12 ‹James› a hardware watchdog does seem a needed device
16/01/2007 16:37:22 ‹lehane› FRAM = Ferro Ram http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroelectric_RAM
16/01/2007 16:37:59 ‹lehane› Be easy to watch for heartbeats and after some period just kickoff the messages
16/01/2007 16:38:14 ‹James› yep.
16/01/2007 16:39:02 ‹James› did you see the uLinux unit that was used in that opnode . That looks a very nice little hardware platform
16/01/2007 16:39:09 ‹lehane› who watches the watchdog?
16/01/2007 16:39:22 ‹James› the cat
16/01/2007 16:39:45 ‹lehane› Yes, nice unit - not sure about the pricing for the first applications.
16/01/2007 16:41:08 ‹James› hopefully once they get sales they can get bettter production costs
16/01/2007 16:41:08 ‹KevinH› I believe he is reducing the prices - at least for the initial purchasers
16/01/2007 16:41:32 ‹James› "Following Kevin’s advices, we’re trying to get better prices for the opn-one"
16/01/2007 16:41:48 ‹KevinH› The dev kit costs - if you use their OS are very high
16/01/2007 16:41:49 ‹James› you're famous again
16/01/2007 16:42:00 ‹KevinH› Where does it say that ?
16/01/2007 16:42:14 ‹James› Latest News
16/01/2007 16:42:20 ‹James› http://www.opnode.org/dw/doku.php?id=opnode:home
16/01/2007 16:42:37 ‹lehane› Small volumes are a killer. The only reason the Modtronix PIC board are so cheap is volume and a free toolkit and TCP/IP stack
16/01/2007 16:44:08 ‹James› is it this one you are using http://www.modtronix.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_36&;products_id=73 ?
16/01/2007 16:46:03 ‹lehane› that URL doesn't work for me. I used the SBC45EC for the LCD and the SBC65/68EC for the mapper and future projects.
16/01/2007 16:46:30 ‹James› k, i was looking at the SBC44EC
16/01/2007 16:46:51 ‹lehane› 44 and 45 pretty much the same, just some I/O port changes
16/01/2007 16:47:19 ‹James› so are these programmed in C or do you get a nice language to work with?
16/01/2007 16:47:43 ‹KevinH› Is C not a nice language ?
16/01/2007 16:47:48 ‹lehane› proper C (MPLAB C18)
16/01/2007 16:47:59 ‹James› you didn't think so yesterday
16/01/2007 16:48:06 ‹James› k
16/01/2007 16:48:13 ‹KevinH› Not sure I do today either...
16/01/2007 16:48:27 ‹KevinH› MPLAB is a pay product isnt it now ?
16/01/2007 16:48:35 ‹James› has the bug resurfaced btw?
16/01/2007 16:49:08 ‹James› FREE! MPLAB C18 Student Edition v3.02
16/01/2007 16:49:50 ‹lehane› after 60 days the optimisation is turned off.
16/01/2007 16:50:53 ‹lehane› ...and the code won't fit!
16/01/2007 16:51:10 ‹James› not helpful then
16/01/2007 16:51:29 ‹KevinH› Nope - I think I squished it this time...
16/01/2007 16:51:40 ‹lehane› One can always uninstall and re-install
16/01/2007 16:52:17 ‹KevinH› Does VMWare solve this too ?
16/01/2007 16:52:51 ‹KevinH› L - is your xAP parsing code your own or derived from Patricks ?
16/01/2007 16:53:25 ‹lehane› The parser is mine. I took Patricks address match but it didn't match subs correctly
16/01/2007 16:53:46 ‹KevinH› Ahh - yes - I ahve a fix for that - but I guess you've done it anyway
16/01/2007 16:54:12 ‹lehane› probably differently!
16/01/2007 16:54:49 ‹KevinH› Do you parse and action each incoming xAP line on the fly line by line or do you store a whole message construct in RAM ?
16/01/2007 16:55:21 ‹lehane› The ethernet chip buffers a frame so you only need a line buffer in local ram
16/01/2007 16:55:22 ‹KevinH› I know I do not do it efficiently as I store teh whol xAp construct (as per Patricks code)
16/01/2007 16:56:25 ‹KevinH› and you buffer several frames ?
16/01/2007 16:57:03 ‹lehane› no, can't do that with the hardware. So it releases as soon as it has no match
16/01/2007 16:57:13 ‹KevinH› just wondering what would happen in very heavy traffic
16/01/2007 16:57:30 ‹lehane› same stack as the Netiom basically
16/01/2007 16:57:43 ‹KevinH› whilst you were still mid message in the line parsing
16/01/2007 16:58:26 ‹KevinH› The Netiom is incredibly fast at its UDP
16/01/2007 16:59:16 ‹lehane› There is a Slimserver network test that kills it....
16/01/2007 16:59:56 ‹KevinH› ahh - is that a bug or a 'just does'
16/01/2007 17:00:34 ‹lehane› too many broadcast frames a second. But it recovers immediately
16/01/2007 17:01:28 ‹KevinH› Have you any intentions of releasing your PIC code or at least the xAP parsing framework to the public domain ?
16/01/2007 17:02:06 ‹KevinH› Or (like myself) not thought about it/
16/01/2007 17:02:54 ‹lehane› At some point I guess I will. But there hasn't been a torrent of people wanting hex images.
16/01/2007 17:03:26 ‹KevinH› k
16/01/2007 17:03:50 ‹lehane› OK - time for me to slope off I'm afraid...
16/01/2007 17:04:10 ‹KevinH› We should perhaps co-ordinate a xAP mapper class
16/01/2007 17:04:27 ‹KevinH› if you might add a config class to your Mapper
16/01/2007 17:04:41 ‹lehane› Good idea - the web interface is clunky at present
16/01/2007 17:04:44 ‹KevinH› Ill send you waht i used
16/01/2007 17:04:50 ‹lehane› K
16/01/2007 17:05:00 ‹KevinH› its dead simple
16/01/2007 17:05:32 ‹KevinH› but has no security of course
16/01/2007 17:05:39 ‹lehane› do you have AND/OR logic?
16/01/2007 17:06:07 ‹KevinH› nope , not yet purely a Mapper but supports wildcards
16/01/2007 17:06:26 ‹KevinH› The logic thing I actually hardcoded as a few specific thinsg I needed to do
16/01/2007 17:06:56 ‹KevinH› A move to a more configurabl logic engine along with timed events was one we really need
16/01/2007 17:06:59 ‹lehane› I've put some simple AND/OR in and multiple outputs, mainly cos of the DMX channels I have
16/01/2007 17:07:31 ‹lehane› but NO scripting!
16/01/2007 17:07:44 ‹KevinH› Daniel si also interested in a potential xAP controller using his opn node architecture
16/01/2007 17:08:00 ‹KevinH› Scripting as a killer to code unfortunately
16/01/2007 17:08:42 ‹KevinH› Really we need a similar product to HomeVision for xAP
16/01/2007 17:09:05 ‹James› As a non C person I'd like to see a basic scripting languae in there ;-) Like the barionet does
16/01/2007 17:09:18 ‹KevinH› but with no onboard I/O just logic/timed events and scripting of some form
16/01/2007 17:09:51 ‹lehane› and HV uses no great CPU
16/01/2007 17:09:54 ‹KevinH› its a real pig to code and make accessible to users in a nice way though -
16/01/2007 17:10:13 ‹KevinH› once you've got your Modtronix board we shall expect great things J
16/01/2007 17:10:32 ‹James› a basic stamp and a siteplay was my limit for now
16/01/2007 17:10:34 ‹KevinH› Its just a Z80 variant
16/01/2007 17:10:51 ‹KevinH› but it works really well
16/01/2007 17:10:58 ‹KevinH› Do you have a HV unit L ?
16/01/2007 17:11:31 ‹lehane› No, no HV. Floorplan currently runs it all.
16/01/2007 17:12:17 ‹KevinH› Ahh - cos I sort of have HV's internal Flags and variables mapped and synched with BSC devices
16/01/2007 17:12:45 ‹KevinH› so you can 'sort of' use HV's script language to interact two way with BSC
16/01/2007 17:13:08 ‹lehane› I have a few hundred lines of VBscript!
16/01/2007 17:13:33 ‹KevinH› me too
16/01/2007 17:13:47 ‹lehane› anyway I must go.
16/01/2007 17:13:55 ‹James› I think I've got 3 lines in use
16/01/2007 17:13:55 ‹lehane› catch you nest week
16/01/2007 17:13:57 ‹KevinH› nite....
16/01/2007 17:14:00 ‹James› ok, bfn
16/01/2007 17:14:07 ‹lehane› next week even..
16/01/2007 17:14:10 ‹lehane› bye
16/01/2007 17:14:13 * lehane quit
16/01/2007 17:14:22 ‹KevinH› Thats not very good from teh FP author - 3 lines !
16/01/2007 17:14:29 ‹KevinH› Oh btw...
16/01/2007 17:14:45 ‹James› occupancy system has removed the need for what i had before
16/01/2007 17:15:01 ‹KevinH› http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?p=753311#post753311
16/01/2007 17:15:55 ‹KevinH› Also if you do speak with E can you ask if he might answer daniels post re teh X10 schema as he's probably the most familiar with that schema
16/01/2007 17:16:15 ‹KevinH› Daniel is trying to code teh X10 schema into the opn stuff as we speak
16/01/2007 17:16:35 ‹James› x10? why it 'orrible
16/01/2007 17:16:55 ‹KevinH› I know but he just wanted a totally embedded X10 solution
16/01/2007 17:17:01 ‹KevinH› for xAp
16/01/2007 17:17:24 ‹James› can't he just do bsc for the connected x10 unit??
16/01/2007 17:17:40 ‹KevinH› I think he's going to offer both
16/01/2007 17:18:02 ‹James› k, afair the x10 schema is little more than the wire format
16/01/2007 17:18:42 ‹KevinH› I haven't really looked at what a CM12U talks...
16/01/2007 17:19:15 ‹James› as you say, E would know
16/01/2007 17:21:06 ‹James› right, must go. this xFP is bugging me!
16/01/2007 17:22:09 ‹KevinH› I ahve some bits to sort too - but currently the Rabbit is running like a dream
16/01/2007 17:22:24 ‹James› excelent
16/01/2007 17:22:28 ‹KevinH› <:o)